Allies Voice: Is GM human insulin making diabetes chronic?
According to a study conducted by the Barbara Davis Center for Childhood Diabetes, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, researchers confirmed that endogenous INSULIN is the cause of inflammation / beta cell destruction leading to autoimmune Type 1 diabetes .
If the cause of autoimmune Type 1 diabetes is the insulin itself -- why are we expeditiously started on a regimen of a biosynthetic form of the hormone that caused diabetes in the first place? This is nearly as brilliant as treating a peanut allergy with peanut butter. Lest I not question the scientific integrity of Big Pharma...
A fellow blogger for scientific affairs, Scott Strumello, recently posted an insightful blog titled: Rethinking the "Dark Ages" of Treatment for Type 1 Diabetes. Scott's blog tactfully explains how he was introduced to the business of diabetes. By all means -- pay a visit to his blogspot for the aforementioned and stick around for his sequel blog titled, Selective Disclosure of the Truth: When Is the Line Crossed? BAM! Put that in your pharmaceutical peace pipe and smoke it!
Those of us passengers on the "D-train" know that insulin treatment is an imperfect science, at best. Insulin manufacturers like Eli Lilly (NYSE: LLY), Novo Nordisk (NYSE: NVO) and Sanofi Aventis (NYSE: SNY) have staked all claims for future profits on patented formulas for desecrating the structure of insulin. What is more imperfect than the profit-driven pursuits to reinvent the wheel?
Sounds like the makings of a chronic disease. What a beautiful business model!!
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I think we need to look at Type 1 diabetes from the allergy angle. Although not a "true" IgE allergy, autoimmune diseases seem to occur after exposure to a substance (virus/food protein/factor x) that is similar to the target tissue or triggers attack on it.
This is thought to occur by way of the "leaky gut", or intestinal permeability. If you stop that trigger (s) from entering the leaky gut, you can possibly stop the autoimmune attack. Research has supported the leaky gut as the necessary precluding factor in Type 1 diabetes.
Further immune regulation to halt long-standing autoimmunity, drugs to encourage beta cell regeneration, and/or a transplant of beta cells may be needed for a full "cure". Or perhaps not. No one knows for certain, and there is no way to predict individual responses at this time.
I don't think I can comfortably side with "human" insulin being "better" or "worse" for Type 1 aside from the fact that it is engineered and GM. Insulin use in Type 2's generally DOES have a negative effect.
The reason why *I* personally feel this is because of what is known in autoimmune thyroid disease.
Using pig thyroid (dessicated thyroid)to treat autoimmune thyroid disease instead of "human" synthetic is known to INCREASE the levels of anti-thyroid hormone to very high levels.
This could be due to an increase in any natural thyroid hormone the person makes, thus making the autoimmune response fire back with a vengeance. As a result, the disease is simply aggravated, not eradicated.
Or, antibodies are increased due to the fact that pig thyroid hormone is foreign DNA. This (high antibodies)has been shown to happen with animal insulin, which is one reason why someone on animal insulin generally needs much higher doses of it to maintain the same control.
Or, since you can get more precise doses with synthetic thyroid hormone, more often the gland is entirely shut down. Meaning, all of your thyroid hormone is coming from Synthroid, and virtually zero from your thyroid gland. This has been shown very well to reduce antibody levels and even halt disease progression, since your gland is not releasing any thyroid hormone. In addition,this exogenous "outside" human thyroid hormone may divert the attack onto itself and save your own cells from attack.
It is unclear if this happens with animal and/or synthetic "human" thyroid hormone.
All that is known is that antibodies increase greatly when animal hormone is given. This is generally seen as "worse", although it could be either, depending on why this is exactly happening.
Some people say they FEEL "worse" on animal hormones. The only time high levels of antibodies have been proven to be dangerous as far as I am aware, is in pregnancy, where they can increase the rate of miscarriage.
As it stands, I think there are pros and cons to both animal and synthetic insulin. I'd LIKE to say "natural" is better, but I don't feel I have enough scientific information to say that.
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Allie, you have made a very good point though. When it comes to Type 2 diabetes at least, there was a recent study released that showed that injected insulin DID cause increased insulin dependency in Type 2 diabetics.
This is negligence, especially since most cases of Type 2 can be treated very well with diet, weight loss, and exercise. Adding MORE insulin to someone who has resistance to insulin is NOT an intelligent solution. But yes, it IS a great way to perpetuate business!
I would be curious to see if anyone has been able to find records of endogenous c-peptide levels of Type 1's on animal insulin...if we can prove those on animal insulin still make some of their own insulin due to that fact...we have a case that will sway me. Although not a cure, c-peptide plays a role in keeping a T1 healthy.
I think we are right in the middle:
-GM insulin analogues may not be recognized as insulin by the immune system, which could be good or bad. Possibly good if less antibodies=good. Possibly bad if it is better to inject insulin recognized as "insulin" to divert the attack on one's own cells. Also bad if it is recognized and further ramps up the attack on any remaining beta cells.
This is why I always used to laugh when those sensational articles on "diabetes cured with liver cells" were released.
If insulin is the target in Type 1, then ANY cell you manufacture to produce it will immediately come under attack, just like an allergic response.
You have to stop the "allergy" before you can have a cure.
Instead of breaking down the complexity of immunity to try and "cure" Type 1 (may never happen), let's see the big picture. Remove "allergen" that is making insulin the "antigen", and "cure" the disease.
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I wonder if type 2 diabetes (aka insulin resistance) is a type of "allergy" too. In type 2 diabetes, the body is intolerant of glucose and insulin. That is what causes the insulin resistance. Why else would a lean, thin, athletic person BEGIN with insulin resistance, THEN put on weight, and AFTERWARDS progress to diabetes? Most people put the cart before the horse. Insulin resistance PRECEEDS type 2 diabetes. It seems to me that insulin is the problem in all types of diabetes. Perhaps people were meant to have low levels of insulin, and because of our diet, we have too much insulin which is like poison. The human body reacts to that poison in different ways, depending on a person's genes. Some get type 1 and others get type 2.
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Allie and Scott,
I agree with both of you! The animal (beef) insulin worked much better for me. Thanks Allie, for such vital information!!
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If what you say is correct as stated on the first paragraph Allie,
"According to a study conducted by the Barbara Davis Center for Childhood Diabetes, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, researchers confirmed that endogenous INSULIN is the cause of inflammation / beta cell destruction leading to autoimmune Type 1 diabetes."
Then ALL people who of course have endogenous Insulin will eventually become T1DM.
That is just not true or logical.
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Previous studies have tried to induce immune tolerance to insulin using oral or subcutaneous injected insulin in subjects who were at risk for Type 1 diabetes (like allergy desensitization shots). This has been shown not to work, although the government continues to fund such wasteful trials.
In fact, oral insulin *increased* the risk, which is what I assumed would happen. Since the trigger has not been cut out,exposing the body to more insulin will encourage autoimmunity against it.
Just a thought.
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Bettercell: Allie meant that insulin itself is the (or one of) the triggers in Type 1 diabetes. Of course, one can only develop Type 1 diabetes if they:
-Have the necessary genes for Type 1.
-Are exposed to the initiating triggers such as viruses and possibly food proteins.
-Are in an inflammation and autoimmune promoting environment, such as with a lack of Vitamin D or Omgea 3 EFA.
I actually am amused that scientists are "surprised" to discover this. It only makes sense, especially considering what we already know about autoimmunity. At this rate, it's really no surprise we don't have a cure.
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Sara, thank you for clarifying this point about Inflammation further. I am in agreement that Inflammation as a result of the destruction to the Beta Cells remain even after the diagnosis of T1DM. This can account why this auto-immune cascade remains in the person and causes other conditions as well such as Thyroid Disease, Heart Disease, Arthritis and more. All have Inflammation as a variable in the remaining cell structure including of course Type 1 Diabetes.
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Posted by NicholasDynesGracey on 17 January 2008
DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html#comments
Posted by Scott Strumello on 14 January 2008
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/ysfv62 [LoveDiabetes.com].
"...Nicholas Dynes Gracey, ... I find the latest entry you've cited (from the Jan 2008 edition of Curr Opin Immunol.) with human insulin being the autoantigen in NOD/human diabetes absolutely fascinating. This confirms a 2005 study done in murine animal models. One cannot help but wonder if the synthetic "human" insulin we are being forced to use might be causing more problems than the animal insulin used for the first 65 years following its discovery..."
> www.SStrumello.blogspot.com [type 1 Personal experience]
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2vrm2v [pre-1983(?) Urine Testing / GM insulin]
> 0179 www.tinyurl.com/2x8f7j [Clintest]
> 0188 www.tinyurl.com/2b9y4o [Human / Pig / GM insulin ?].
Posted by bird54 on 16 January 2008
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html#comments
"...Hi Nick and Anyone Else, ... Does the review below state that diabetes is caused by an autoimmunity to INSULIN? "Although multiple islet autoantigens are recognized by T lymphocytes and autoantibodies before the development of type 1A (immune-mediated diabetes), there is increasing evidence that autoimmunity to insulin may be central to disease pathogenesis." www.tinyurl.com/23uz59 ... If so, why? Is the autoimmunity to natural insulin or injected insulin? Is diabetes caused by our body rejecting insulin, and if insulin is the problem, wouldn't we want to keep our insulin levels very low (low carb, high fat diet/ketosis)? Would that explain how low carb/intermittent fasting diets can prevent/control/reverse diabetes?..."
Hi Scott Strumello, bird54, Allison Love Beatty & AnyOne else,
Am very grateful for your careful reading of the carefully selected references.
Please read/study my most recent related comments...
> www.tinyurl.com/ysslzj [LoveDiabetes.com].
Dr George Eisenbarth's January 2008 breakthrough regarding insulin antibody research states: "...there is increasing evidence that autoimmunity to insulin may be central to disease pathogenesis ... It is not currently clear why insulin autoimmunity is so prominent and frequent ..."
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2gjcwh [George.Eisenbarth@uchsc.edu].
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Continued...
Allison Love Beatty, with Her www.LoveDiabetes.com video blog [about regularly monitoring current beta-cell insulin capacity with the "Stimulated C-peptide Test" and associated "Auto-Immunity" to GM insulin OR beta-cell insulin], cites a related 25 year previous research paper www.tinyurl.com/3bgq7k [published via www.Lancet.com] as Her first historical reference c/o Dr C Douglas' 1983 findings about the insulin antibody and related auto-immunity to different types of insulin [other than Human beta-cell insulin].
> 0108 tinyurl.com/265wlh [Stimulated C-Peptide test].
Dr C A Douglas' January 1983 insulin antibody research states: "...Mean insulin antibody levels ... fell on highly purified porcine (23.4 leads to 12.9 micrograms/l) and remained much the same on Semi-Synthetic human insulin..."
> 0183 www.tinyurl.com/39zvuo [CA Douglas' & WG Reeves' A/B-peptide insulin antibody test]
> 0582 www.tinyurl.com/3clsg3 [CA Douglas' & WG Reeves' C-peptide insulin antibody test]
> 0286 www.tinyurl.com/ytwmvw [50mmol/L & 900mg/dL glucose In-Vitro vs In-Vivo(?)]
Post-Mortem / In-Vivo / beta-cells retain function even at 30 mmol/l or 540 mg/dL [pH < 7.1]
> 0907 www.tinyurl.com/2vrn55 [ PButler@mednet.ucla.edu].
In the light of: Harry Salzer's 1966 "relative-HYPOglycemia" & Neuro-Psychiatric research, Michael Dosch's 2006 "Psycho-Neuro-Immunology" [PNI] type 1A research AND ... George Eisenbarth's NEW 2008 "Auto-Immunity to Human beta-cell insulin" research ... how reasonable NOW is the 2007 Gracey HYPOthesis for the CAUSE & CURE of diabetes(?)...
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoneuroimmunology
> 0367 www.tinyurl.com/2uxb99">www.tinyurl.com/2uxb99 [c/o Dr Harry M Salzer]
> 1206 www.tinyurl.com/2odurt [ HMDosch@sickkids.ca]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPOthesis"].
…Warm thanks & Adrenalin Love
Nick Gracey, BSc(Hons) Medical Biochemistry, Birmingham University, UK, WATerian (C) 19:14hrs @ THU.17.JAN.2008 c/o DiabetesHealth.com
"The Gracey HYPOthesis" for the CAUSE & CURE of diabetes... www.tinyurl.com/32z33w
CURE auto-immunity... www.tinyurl.com/3cw8eu
CURE diabetes... www.tinyurl.com/2guhfd
CURED diabetes [relative-HYPOglycemia]... www.tinyurl.com/yno298
Eat not less but less OFTEN... www.tinyurl.com/299t3f
Eating less OFTEN is profoundly more healthy than eating less... www.tinyurl.com/ys63gk
Eating too OFTEN sustains & CAUSES all diabetes... www.tinyurl.com/2j7p3t
Diabetes is not a disease ... www.tinyurl.com/2uxb99">www.tinyurl.com/2uxb99 ... diabetes is the CURE...
... for relative-HYPOglycemia ... www.tinyurl.com/36qxn3
Eating-less-OFTEN-Fasting-more-OFTEN-Loving -more-OFTEN...
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html#comments
AdrenaLINE ... www.tinyurl.com/29kvda ... "I-Fast-23hours-45minutes-EveryDay-OrMore"
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"...Hi Nick and Anyone Else, ... Does the review below state that diabetes is caused by an autoimmunity to INSULIN? "Although multiple islet autoantigens are recognized by T lymphocytes and autoantibodies before the development of type 1A (immune-mediated diabetes), there is increasing evidence that autoimmunity to insulin may be central to disease pathogenesis." www.tinyurl.com/23uz59 ... If so, why? Is the autoimmunity to natural insulin or injected insulin? Is diabetes caused by our body rejecting insulin, and if insulin is the problem, wouldn't we want to keep our insulin levels very low (low carb, high fat diet/ketosis)? Would that explain how low carb/intermittent fasting diets can prevent/control/reverse diabetes?..."
The (probable) CAUSE for Type 1a diabetes I have already explained above. Yes, you CAN "reverse" most cases of Type 2 diabetes with a low carb diet. The only way to "cure" Type 1 is to stop the "allergy" to insulin. Then, you need to regenerate (if possible) new beta cells, or undergo a beta cell transplant. Then Type 1 diabetes would essentially be "cured". Simple, really. Now, we just need to do it.
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Sorry, I did not explain this well for you. Yes, you are correct. The autoimmunity is to a person's natural insulin in Type 1 diabetes. This is why a newly diagnosed Type 1 diabetic who has not yet started insulin injections will have positive antibody tests. You can look at this as an "allergy" to one's own insulin. This may be due to "molecular mimicry", which I explained above.
You are correct about low carb diets "reversing" Type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes is not an autoimmune disease, but this works by increasing the sensitivity of the cells to insulin so it works better. Type 2 diabetes is caused by resistance to insulin, and the production of too much insulin. Too much insulin results in even more resistance to it.
Type 1 diabetes results in no insulin, and an "allergy" to insulin.
I hope I have made this easy to understand for you.
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Just to help more:
"Auto" means "self". "Autoimmunity" means immunity to "self" tissues and hormones.
A person can also produce antibodies to foreign substances, but this is a *different* immune response.
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Thank you for taking the time to look this up. It looks like we still have more questions than answers, but I do think that people should have a choice as to which insulin type they want to use. It still looks unclear to me which is clearly the "best" choice for MOST people.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6130198?dopt=Abstract
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Nick, you must have posted the wrong article here. This article says nothing about beta cells be functional at 30 mmol/l, it talks about how immune cells malfunction with high levels of glucose and ketosis in insulin dependent (Type 1) diabetics. It talks about impaired immunity in presumably Type 1 diabetes.
0286 www.tinyurl.com/ytwmvw [50mmol/L & 900mg/dL glucose In-Vitro vs In-Vivo(?)]
Post-Mortem / In-Vivo / beta-cells retain function even at 30 mmol/l or 540 mg/dL [pH < 7.1]
Do you have the article you were originally referring to? I do think this helps explain why Type 1 diabetics cannot get rid of their "leaky gut". There is some evidence to show that the leaky gut is caused/made worse by the presence of yeast. It's a cycle that makes both situations worse.
What do YOU think?
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These people died from untreated Type 1 diabetes (ketoacidosis). http://www.springerlink.com/content/6238458875575460/diabetes.
This article says that beta cell regeneration is not likely in this environment of high blood sugars and ketones. Meaning, any sort of fasting, combined with a lack of insulin, is fatal, and will not help someone with Type 1 diabetes recover.
Am I missing something?
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Ahhh...THIS is the article you meant...but it still does not demonstrate what you are saying. ?
All it shows is some Type 1 diabetics who died from untreated (undiagnosed) diabetes. And that beta cells were not able to regenerate during those hypeglycemic and ketoacidotic conditions.
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Hi bird54 & AnyOne else,
Am very grateful for your careful reading of the carefully selected references.
Please read/study my recent related comments...
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/ysslzj [LoveDiabetes.com]
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/3ygfhv [LoveDiabetes.com]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPOthesis"].
YES bird54, You appear to have the rare capacity to think about [aka visualize] more than 2 perspectives at 1 time. Most Students/Doctors/Researchers [often wearing white coats and/or a tie] attempt research from 1 perspective. Occasionally Some can [aka want to] see 2 perspectives at the same time. You also appear to have a genuine desire for the co-ordinated CURE of all types of diabetes [type 0 to type 4].
In respect of your KEY observation "...the body is intolerant of glucose and insulin ... Why else would a lean, thin, athletic person BEGIN with insulin resistance...".
As documented in the abovementioned comments [and the following 3 references] ... it is now clear that beneficial 'glucose insulin resistance' (GIR) likely precedes ALL forms of type 2 & type 1 diabetes.
WHY ... IRT1DM ?
Dr Polly Bingley's NEW January 2008 breakthrough 'type 1 insulin resistance' research ... considered in the context of Dr Paolo Pozzilli's December 2007 'type 1 & 2 beta-cell-insulin auto-immunity' research AND considered in the context of Dr Anneli Sepa's August 2006 'distress-induced type 1 insulin resistance' research is ALL highly supportive of "The Gracey HYPOthesis" explaining the common CAUSE of ALL type 2 & type 1 diabetes.
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/3dze9q [Polly.Bingley@bristol.ac.uk (IRT1DM) ~ Dr Polly Bingley / following down-regulatory reduction in beta-cell-insulin secretion (HYPO-insulinemia) / protection from relative-HYPOglycemia / "...insulin resistance accelerates progression to type 1 diabetes..."]; and
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/2bpym6 [P.Pozzilli@unicampus.it ~ Dr Paolo Pozzilli / "...An increase in the number of children and adolescents with a mixture of the two types of diabetes ... (i.e., subjects ... with signs of insulin resistance as well as positive for markers of autoimmunity to beta cells)..." / In EFFECT type 1B / 2 / 1.5 / 1A / 2A diabetes appear substantially similar (urination of excess glucose)]; and
> 0806 www.tinyurl.com/2w69gz [Anneli.Sepa@imk.liu.se ~ Dr Anneli Sepa (9/10 type 1 distressed)].
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WHY ... HYPO-INSULINEMIA ?
http://www.TheDiabetesBlog.com/2007/05/25/tv-causes-elevated-glucose-in-children
> 0506 www.tinyurl.com/2sm9g6 [DvWa@paed.azm.nl ~ Dr Dick A. van Waardenburg / beneficial glucose insulin resistance (GIR) / 3 day transition from acute 'stress' into chronic 'distress']; and
> 0205 www.tinyurl.com/39wxv8 [Anneli.Sepa@imk.liu.se ~ Dr Anneli Sepa / "...4,400 consecutive 1-year-old children..." distress "...associated with diabetes-related autoimmunity in the child, independent of family history of diabetes..."]; and
> 0402 www.tinyurl.com/2g8owy [Anneli.Sepa@imk.liu.se ~ Dr Anneli Sepa / "...4,337 nonselected newborn children..." distress "...psychological mechanisms as mediating variables ... and the development of type 1 diabetes..."]; and
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPOthesis" ~ The avoidable CAUSE of type 0 / 1B / 2 / 1.5 / 1A / 2A / 3 diabetes (relative-HYPOglycemia distress) appears substantially identical].
THE STRESS OF LOVE
The primary psychological barrier to a CURE of all diabetes appears to have been the lack of focus upon the common CAUSE of ALL type 2 & type 1 diabetes.
As a Person increasingly chooses to make positivising choices rather than negativising choices then the influence of those positivising patterns can reasonably be expected to help heal that Person via "Psycho-Neuro-Immunology" and a conscious shift from negativising 'distress' to positivising 'stress'.
> www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosomatic_medicine
> www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coue
> www.HealSelf.org/Diabetes.html [Type 1 & 2 Cured].
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DDP FOR HELPING HEAL ALL DIABETES
The more caring / loving a Person the greater the potential for healing via PNI ... So really caring about ALL types of diabetes IE all Diabetics and a 'unified theory' for a dietary Diabetic protocol [DDP] to help CURE all Diabetics is reasonable and key part of a healing modality.
The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine have recently made substantial steps in highlighting the benefits of consciously being offered / choosing an appropriate DDP.
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2008/01/15/5619.html#comments
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/3cw8eu ["The Gracey HYPOthesis" DDP]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/2guhfd ["The Gracey HYPOthesis" DDP (A)(
WHICH DIABETIC TYPE BORN
WITH BETA-CELL INSULIN ?
Dr George Eisenbarth's January 2008 breakthrough regarding insulin antibody research states: "...there is increasing evidence that autoimmunity to insulin may be central to disease pathogenesis ... It is not currently clear why insulin autoimmunity is so prominent and frequent ..."
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2gjcwh [George.Eisenbarth@uchsc.edu].
2008 - 1983 = 25 YEARS...
Allison Love Beatty's LoveDiabetes.com video blog [about regularly monitoring current beta-cell insulin capacity with the "Stimulated C-peptide Test" and associated "Auto-Immunity" to GM insulin OR beta-cell insulin] cites a related 25 year previous research paper www.tinyurl.com/3bgq7k [published via www.Lancet.com], as Her first historical reference, c/o Dr C A Douglas' 1983 concern about the insulin antibody and related auto-immunity to different types of insulin [other than Human beta-cell insulin].
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/265wlh ["Stimulated C-Peptide test"].
WHY IS IN-VIVO 'LIFE' DIFFERENT
TO IN-VITRO 'TEST-TUBES' ?
Dr Douglas' January 1983 insulin antibody research states: "...Mean insulin antibody levels ... fell on highly purified porcine (23.4 leads to 12.9 micrograms/l) and remained much the same on Semi-Synthetic human insulin..."
> 0183 www.tinyurl.com/39zvuo [Douglas/Reeves ~ A/B-peptide insulin antibody test]
> 0582 www.tinyurl.com/3clsg3 [Douglas/Reeves ~ C-peptide insulin antibody test]
> 0286 www.tinyurl.com/ytwmvw [Wilson/Reeves ~ 50mmol/L & 900mg/dL glucose In-Vitro vs In-Vivo(?)]
> 0907 www.tinyurl.com/2vrn55 [PButler@mednet.ucla.edu ~ In-Vivo vs In-Vivo(?)/ beta-cells retain function even at 30 mmol/l or 540 mg/dL (pH < 7.1)].
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Continued...
In the light of: Harry Salzer's 1966 "relative-HYPOglycemia" & Neuro-Psychiatric research, Michael Dosch's 2006 "Psycho-Neuro-Immunology" [PNI] type 1A research AND ... George Eisenbarth's NEW 2008 "Auto-Immunity to Human beta-cell insulin" research ... how reasonable NOW is the 2007 Gracey HYPOthesis for the CAUSE & CURE of diabetes(?)...
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoneuroimmunology
> 0367 www.tinyurl.com/2uxb99 [c/o Dr Harry M Salzer]
> 1206 www.tinyurl.com/2odurt [HMDosch@sickkids.ca]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPOthesis"].
…Warm thanks & Adrenalin Love
Nick Gracey, BSc(Hons) Medical Biochemistry, Birmingham University, UK, WATerian (C) 10:23hrs @ FRI.18.JAN.2008 c/o DiabetesHealth.com
"The Gracey HYPOthesis" for the CAUSE & CURE of diabetes... www.tinyurl.com/32z33w
CURE auto-immunity... www.tinyurl.com/3cw8eu
CURE diabetes... www.tinyurl.com/2guhfd
CURED diabetes [relative-HYPOglycemia]... www.tinyurl.com/yno298
Eat not less but less OFTEN... www.tinyurl.com/299t3f
Eating less OFTEN is profoundly more healthy than eating less... www.tinyurl.com/ys63gk
Eating too OFTEN sustains & CAUSES all diabetes... www.tinyurl.com/2j7p3t
Diabetes is not a disease ... tinyurl.com/2uxb99 ... diabetes is the CURE...
... for relative-HYPOglycemia ... www.tinyurl.com/36qxn3
Eating-less-OFTEN-Fasting-more-OFTEN-Loving -more-OFTEN...
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html#comments
AdrenaLINE ... www.tinyurl.com/29kvda ... "I-Fast-23hours-45minutes-EveryDay-OrMore"
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Having been a Type 1 since 1956, and a plant scientist since 1964, I am qualified to ask everyone in this discussion seems rather naïve considering that “progress in diabetes care” has always promised “a cure in only 5 years.”
People with diabetes may be more “allergic” than the general population. If you have ever been to an allergist, or had immunity/antibody tests, you know the results are akin to quackery, and that ‘treatment’ seems more voo-doo than medicine.
We seem to be assuming all human insulin has been created equal. All insulin receptor cells are equal and perfect. Why do we need to consider blood type, histocompatability, rejection, etc., if we are all the same?
We don’t know the cause, but we do speculate on the domino cascade of events which take place resulting in all forms of this chronic disease.
Human insulin is a 3-dimensional molecule. The receptor molecules are complex chemical entities which may also be affected by inflammation resulting in misshapen product. Our present technology can give us a gross molecular weight, can bring together 2 strands that fold into ‘human insulin’ but the spatial arrangement could easily be rejected as a foreign protein. Diabetics all have individual genetic predispositions which probably include preferential selectivity to certain insulin hormones.
We all need to recognize insulin’s relationship to bG control and other health events. Insulin, as a medical tool, is no better than using a hammer to swat at flies. Ever try curing iron deficiency in a plant by dumping a bucket of rusty nails around its base? If so, you probably didn’t have spectacular results. Why shouldn’t we consider that all the various forms of insulin are needed because all diabetics are individuals.
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I agree. Except for the fact that we can NEVER produce synthetic insulin to match the genetic and physiologic needs of each individual diabetic. That is why we need a true cure.
You are correct that Type 1 diabetics are prone to being "allergic", although in this sense I mean IgG and IgA antibody responses and not the true allergic response,which is immune mediated IgE. IgE reactions are seen in anaphylaxis, hives, etc.
Type 1 diabetics and people with other autoimmune diseases do have high levels of IgG and IgA antibodies, and sometimes IgM. What is interesting in that people with autoimmune diseases tend to have a shift in their Th 1 and Th 2 ratio. People with autoimmune diseases tend to have a REDUCED shift towards traditional IgE allergic reactions and vice versa. That said, some people, like myself, have a IL-10 defect and tend to have BOTH autoimmune (IgA, IgG) and IgE (true allergic) diseases.
There is very little way to treat true IgE allergies. I am anaphylatic to milk and wheat (I also have Celiac Disease, which is an autoimmune reaction to gluten). For my inhalant allergies (I have severe asthma due to them), I tried allergy shots, which caused by asthma to grow worse. All I can do is avoid certain foods and rely on asthma meds.
The increased IgA and IgG response in Type 1 diabetics and those with autoimmune diseases is thought to be due to the so called "leaky gut". Hoepfully, this response can be reuduced with Alba's Zonulin inhibitor, AT-1001, due to have FDA approval within 3 years.
I agree with everything you said.
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"CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that insulin resistance accelerates progression to type 1 diabetes in antibody-positive relatives in whom insulin secretion is markedly reduced but does not affect progression when insulin secretion is relatively well preserved."
This does NOT say Type 1 diabetes is caused by insulin resistance, it says that insulin resitance SPEADS up (accelaerates)the process of autoimmunity in those who have autoimmunity and beta cell loss. And that makes sense, considering the inflammation and increased insulin output seen with insulin resistance.
How would you use this the Gracey model to explain autoimmune Hashimoto's Thyroidits, the exact same pathology as Type 1 diabetes?
Am I missing something?
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17991137?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Mr. Gracey,
This does NOT support the same CAUSE for both Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. It is about the "Accelerator Hypothesis", which has even been dismissed in other recent studies. The Accelerator Hypothesis does not say that the cause for both types of diabetes are the same, just that obesity speeds up the production of insulin from the beta cells, leading to quicker destruction in people with autoimmunity for Type 1 diabetes. That said, most children with Type 1 diabetes are thin at diagnosis, so this alone cannot explain the increase in Type 1 diabetes in children under age 5.
Better explanations are:
-People with Type 1 diabetes are living to reproduce, have less miscarriages, and raise children. Thus, their genes are put back into the gene pool. More genetic influence=earlier Type 1 diagnosis.
-Processed foods and dietary gluten contributes to the leaky gut, which lets in the trigger (s).
-Mutated diabetogenic viruses or an increase in such viruses.
-Lack of sunshine (Vitamin D), Omega 3 in the diet, and the fact that we are "too clean" (Hygiene Hypothesis).
-Infants are not breastfed for long, and cow's milk is introduced at a young age (thought to be linked to Type 1 diabetes).
I'm confused by something Nick said:
If Nick thinks that all forms of diabetes are the same disease, how do you explain that they all have different genetics and patterns of inheitence? Type 1a diabetes is almost always found in whites (Northern Europeans), almost never in Asians or blacks, and Type 2 diabetes affects blacks, Asians, and Indians to the greastest extent.
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Posted by Nicholas Dynes Gracey on 18 January 2008 at 1:40 PM ... just above ...
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/28aa5g [LoveDiabetes.com]...
Posted by Nicholas Dynes Gracey on 18 January 2008
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html#comments...
Posted by bird54 on 18 January 2008
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2sba3t [LoveDiabetes.com].
"...I wonder if type 2 diabetes (aka insulin resistance) is a type of "allergy" too. In type 2 diabetes, the body is intolerant of glucose and insulin. That is what causes the insulin resistance. Why else would a lean, thin, athletic person BEGIN with insulin resistance, THEN put on weight, and AFTERWARDS progress to diabetes? Most people put the cart before the horse. Insulin resistance PROCEEDS type 2 diabetes. It seems to me that insulin is the problem in all types of diabetes. Perhaps people were meant to have low levels of insulin, and because of our diet, we have too much insulin which is like poison. The human body reacts to that poison in different ways, depending on a person's genes. Some get type 1 and others get type 2...".
Posted by bird54 on 17 January 2008
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2peho3 [DiabetesHealth.com #comments]
"...Hi Nick and Anyone Else,
Do you realize we have come full circle in these comments? The article above is titled, "Insulin for Type 2 Diabetics..." And here we find from the latest study that INSULIN IS THE PROBLEM! So, why in the world would any doctor give insulin to a type 2 diabetic, when it only makes the disease worse?!...".
Posted by bird54 on 16 January 2008
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/yq4vra [DiabetesHealth.com #comments]
"...Hi Nick and Anyone Else, ... Does the review below state that diabetes is caused by an autoimmunity to INSULIN? "Although multiple islet autoantigens are recognized by T lymphocytes and autoantibodies before the development of type 1A (immune-mediated diabetes), there is increasing evidence that autoimmunity to insulin may be central to disease pathogenesis." www.tinyurl.com/23uz59 ... If so, why? Is the autoimmunity to natural insulin or injected insulin? Is diabetes caused by our body rejecting insulin, and if insulin is the problem, wouldn't we want to keep our insulin levels very low (low carb, high fat diet/ketosis)? Would that explain how low carb/intermittent fasting diets can prevent/control/reverse diabetes?..."
Posted by Nicholas Dynes Gracey on 14 January 2008
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/1994/06/01/217.html#comments
"...Blood plasma glucose rises 'diabetically' via 'release' of glucose from the liver, following exercise, in order to prevent relative-HYPOglycemia [the CAUSE of diabetes] compensating for the rate of change of the reducing glucose concentration [from its starting concentration] in the plasma which would otherwise be reducing too rapidly [to supply the brain/nerves with adequate glucose] as glucose moves into the muscles to replace the muscle-metabolized glucose...".
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I agree that Type 2 diabetics should not be given insulin in general. The problem is that many Type 2 diabetics would rather take a pill or inject insulin instead of lose weight, eat healthy, and exericse to effectively "cure" their disease (90% of cases). They just won't do it. Almost ALL Type 2 diabetics ARE overweight, even if they won't admit it or are in denial. Most people who are thin with "Type 2" diabetes have genetic insulin resistance, secondary diabetes caused by something else, slow onset Type 1 (LADA), or MODY.
I have explained the CAUSE of Type 1 diabetes (autoimmunity to insulin) above.
In Type 1 diabetes, HYPOglycemia (not HYPER or normoglycemia) results from exercise. This does not happen in Type 2 diabetics. Often, Type 2 diabetics (who do not have an impaired glycogen response) will put out too much glucose via the liver.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17953465?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
So Nick, would you say exercise is bad for Type 1 diabetics because it causes them to have low blood sugar?
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Hi Sarah,
According to Dr. Bernstein, it is the intensity of the exercise that causes hypo or hyper glycemia. Intense exercise raises blood sugar (by the release of cortisol and adrenaline) so he cautions diabetics not to do strenuous exercise if their blood sugar is high. For me, when I walk, I get hypoglycemia. That is why I walk after a carbohydrate meal because it brings my blood sugar down. But I have to be careful that I don't walk too long, or I'll be down in the 50's.
I agree with you that type 1 diabetes is more severe and should be given priority in finding a cure. However, since diabetes in general is an epidemic, we need to find a cure for all diabetes or that will be the death of society. If curing type 2 diabetes was as simple as dieting and exercising, I wouldn't have it. There is something more going on here. I believe the diabetes epidemic is caused by distress: mainly overwork and sleep deprivation. Most people are just too exhausted to exercise and eat healthy. In addition, exercise and eating healthy foods will not replace sleep or undo work related distress. I know, because I exercise and eat healthy foods, and I still got diabetes (even though it does not run in my family.)
If it weren't for the type 2 diabetes epidemic, there would not be all the research on diabetes. It is sad to say that numbers matter. If 90% of diabetes is type 2, they are the ones who will get all the attention. Therefore, it is imperative that we all stick together, so that in finding a cure for type 2, they will also find a cure for type 1. By discovering the similarities and differences in these diseases, it will benefit all of us. For your sake, and others, I hope they find the cause of autoimmune diseases soon.
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Thanks Bird54, and I agree and also would love a cure for you as well, of course. I think that *in general* many Type 1's come across as indifferent to the plight of Type 2's. This is not always the case. I think what most of us are trying to say is that there is no PROVEN research to say that the cure for Type 2 is going to help Type 1, or vice versa. Even if there is some degree (a much less degree) of insulin resistance found in autoimmunity, it is likely due to the autoimmune reaction itself/islet malfunction and inflammation due to misfiring nerves, and NOT the actual cause.
I say this because there are hundreds of other autoimmune diseases out there with the same pathology as Type 1 diabetes, and we can't use the same explanation to explain them.
I have to say that you are a rarer case. I know it is frustrating for you to be lumped in with "obese" Type 2 diabetics, and blamed for your disease. I truly want you to know that I feel for you.I know you are trying so hard to overcome this.
But the reality is, most diabetics ARE Type 2 diabetics due to lifestyle choices, plain and simple. Sure, some have diabetes due to chemicals in the environment (i.e. Agent Orange causes T2 diabetes), steroids,antidepressants, or due to genetic or other unknown reasons.
People who do sleep less eat more, and more fast food. As you explained, that could be tied into a whole obesegenic fast paced environment, no doubt. There is no doubt that sleeping a solid 8 hours a night has been shown to reduce cortisol levels and fasting blood sugar. But we have gotten to the point that studies have blamed everything from the birth control pill to air conditioning (really) for the obesity crisis. I don't buy it.
For the *vast majority* (not all) cases of Type 2 diabetes, the "cause" is too much food (especially junk foods) and not enough exercise. This usually, but not always included being overweight. Period.
While I do understand how hard it is to work full time and live healthy, it can be done, but sadly, few WANT to do it. Even if it means their health. I've seen doctors who work 70 hour work weeks and still go jogging and bring a healthy lunch to work. Or people who workout on their lunch hour. I know not everyone can do this, but I bet you that a good portion could, if they only really made the effort. I know LOTS of overweight people who say they "don't want" to "bother" with healthy living. And one of them is now a Type 2 diabetic.
What I *don't* get is when I see already clearly obese people (or anyone) ordering 4 buckets of KFC and a 2 L of Coke. And then they eat the whole bucket themselves. There is NO excuse for this. If you have a food addition, get help. It's no different from being addicted to crack. I'm not sure why people can speak out against drug addiction, but it seems like there is this unspoken word not to criticise people for their unhealthy habits and obesity. We have to address the REAL cause of Type 2 diabetes for a cure.
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Sorry, I forgot to add that there is much work being done on studying cases of Type 2 diabetes in thin people (Joslin Diabetes Study). MODY is getting a lot of funding right now. I expect that many breakthroughs will be made in the near future. We have already discovered MODY and the KIR6 mutation (neonatal diabetes), both genetic forms of diabetes that are not Type 1 or Type 2, but may be treated the same as either. These are new disorders just found within the past couple of years. There is LOTS of hope for you, Bird54!
Perhaps we can even look at what you are doing together, look at your family history, and try and see what else can be done for you. Many times the average MD would rather write an Rx than really try to solve the problem.
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Hi Sarah,
I found this article which I am quoting only to show how fuzzy the lines are between type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/449804
"The clinical presentations of type 1 and type 2 diabetes have become blurred…There are certain ethnic groups that are at greater risk for type 2... Patients at risk for type 2 diabetes often have features of the metabolic syndrome due to underlying insulin resistance. The criteria for the metabolic syndrome include abdominal obesity, which is defined as a waist circumference > 40 inches in men and > 35 inches in women. There are also lipid abnormalities, including triglycerides >/= 150 mg/dL, and HDL cholesterol < 40 mg/dL in men and < 50 mg/dL in women. Additional criteria include blood pressure >/= 130/85 mmHg and fasting blood glucose > 110 mg/dL.
Confusion can also occur because patients with type 1 diabetes can have a "honeymoon period." These individuals with type 1 diabetes still have a small amount of beta cells ...and the diagnosis can be confused with type 2 diabetes."
According to the definition of type 2, I should not be classified as type 2. My waist is under 34, my trigylcerides are 70, my HDL is 70, and I am not of any of the Ethnic groups mentioned. Yet, my doctor never tested my insulin/c-peptide levels, or antibodies. Recently, I met two people of Northern European heritage who developed type 1 at older ages (40 and 65) who became skinny only AFTER their beta cells had worn out and they were diagnosed because of the weight loss. I wonder how many type 2's are really type 1's whose beta cell function is not completely exhausted and who are able to get by with a low carb diet, and are living in an extended honeymoon period?
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Hi Bird54, you are correct. This study fits into the ignorance that surrounds Type 1 diabetes. I have always told you to be screened for Type 1, I believe, since you said your son has Celiac. But you told me you have insulin resistance (Type 2). I always assumed your doctor tested your antibodies and c-peptide and that they were negative.
Unfortunately, due to ignorance, many adult Type 1's (LADA) misdiagnosed as Type 2's think they are doing something wrong when pills no longer control their glucose levels, and worse, some are not re-diagnosed with Type 1 until they are in the ER in a coma and/or dead. It is a crime.
My point is that yes, ignorance is a HUGE issue, but it does not change the fact that there are very distinct types and causes of "diabetes". They are still very different diseases, even if people have trouble telling them apart. And yes, you can have more than 1 "type" (which according to Gracey you could not). That said, a clinical presentation blur does not mean they are the same disease.
Obesity is common in general, so yes, a "Type 2" really may have slow onset Type 1 and not Type 2. Of course, this only happens with slow onset Type 1, because most acute cases involve dangerously high blood sugars and extreme weight loss. Also note that the obesity itself does not cause the disease, although it may exacerbate it.
That said, Type 1 diabetes is not that common overall, but it does develop in adults, and doctors should be aware.
I have heard that if you include the misdiagnosed Type 2's (who really have LADA), and those with MODY and LADA, as well as those with "secondary" diabetes, about 25% of diabetes cases are either autoimmune, genetic, or are otherwise not preventable.
Then you have the remaining 75% virtually all due to obesity and lifestyle.
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Bird54, I do like your interpretation. I'm not sure how it fits into the model of other autoimmune diseases, though. If Type 1 diabetes and Multiple Sclerosis and virtually the same disease with different targets for unknown reasons (as per Sick Kids research), then how does this theory apply? Do we produce too much thyroid hormone to develop Hashimoto's Thyroiditis? What about Grave's Disease in which the thyroid gland is stimulated by antibodies to produce TOO MUCH thyroid hormone? Or MS or Rheumatoid Arthritis? Do we begin to "produce" too much Central Nervous tissue or connective tissue? Although Nick's theory is interesting and likely makes sense for Type 2 diabetes, it really does little to explain autoimmune disease. Type 1 diabetes being one of them.
It is doing a diservice to diabetics to lump diabetes (Type 1) in with a metabolic disease instead of autoimmunity. This is why we don't have a cure yet.
Insulin resistance can occur before obesity for a number of factors:
-Previous dieting and extreme weight cycling (losing and gaining over and over).
-Inflammation, smoking, and/or drugs known to cause insulin resistance. Inflammation can occur from many different causes.
-Inflammation and insulin resistance as a result of poor diet (trans fats, high meat intake), even if the person is still thin.
-Genetic insulin resistance syndromes, like MODY, which in some cases may be due to misshapen insulin and/or receptors, as explain above.
-Other causes of post-secondary Type 2 diabetes, such as PCOS and Cushing's Disease.
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Sorry, I mean "secondary" diabetes.
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DDP FOR HELPING HEAL ALL DIABETES
The more caring / loving a Person the greater the potential for healing via PNI ... So really caring about ALL types of diabetes IE all Diabetics and a 'unified theory' for a dietary Diabetic protocol [DDP] to help CURE all Diabetics is reasonable and key part of a healing modality.
The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine have recently made substantial steps in highlighting the benefits of consciously being offered / choosing an appropriate DDP.
http://www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2008/01/15/5619.html#comments
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/3cw8eu ["The Gracey HYPOthesis" DDP]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/2guhfd ["The Gracey HYPOthesis" DDP (A)((C)].
I don't want to cure diabetes, I want to cure autoimmunity. My thyroid disease is going to kill me soon. I am not ready to die in my 20's like my aunt.
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For the record, my aunt died from thyroidtoxicosis (triggered cardiac arrest).
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NICK GRACEY:
Why do you always ignore my questions? Are you scared of me?
How would you use this the Gracey model to explain autoimmune Hashimoto's Thyroidits, the exact same pathology as Type 1 diabetes?
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Posted by bird54 on 18 January 2008
www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html
"...Hi Nick and Anyone Else,
In the three links that you listed, it appears that STRESS (physical or psychological) can be the trigger for diabetes:
“HYPERGLYCEMIA AND INSULIN resistance are universal findings in critically ill adult patients. In the acutely stressed state, this metabolic response can be regarded as an adaptive response, promoting cellular glucose uptake in non-insulin-dependent tissue and, as such, is important for survival.” www.tinyurl.com/2sm9g6
"...we suggest that psychological stress ...
psychosocial strain in families, might be
involved in the induction or progression of
diabetes-related autoimmunity in infants,
possibly via--cell stress. The findings of the
current study give some support for a
--cell stress hypothesis as an extension of
the accelerator hypothesis, in so far
that a number of different factors, e.g.,
psychological stress, puberty, and rapid
growth could be involved in the development
of type 1 diabetes." tinyurl.com/39wxv8
"Psychological mechanisms are directly linked to hormonal and nervous signals, which increase the need for insulin and affect the immune system." tinyurl.com/2g8owy
So "stress" is how diabetes is connected to the nervous "nervous system." It makes sense that insulin resistance is beneficial because it protects the brain and nerves during times of stress..."
Hi bird54 & AnyOne else,
Sort of [but true stress is always positive]. People mean what They say [what comes out of their mouth (or fingers)] and say what They mean [Freud called it a 'Freudian-slip']. Simply change the words You adopt. Babies and animals have zero capacity for that... Adult Humans DO. Change "distress" for "stress" in your words and change "distress" into "stress" in your deeds...
> www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip
> 1296 www.tinyurl.com/39cqlc [Quan ~ The 'missing-link']
Dr Anneli Sepa ...
> 0806 www.tinyurl.com/2w69gz [(9/10 type 1 DISTRESS)]; and
> 0205 www.tinyurl.com/39wxv8 ["...4,400 consecutive 1-year-old children..." DISTRESS "...associated with diabetes-related autoimmunity in the child, independent of family history of diabetes..."]; and
> 0402 www.tinyurl.com/2g8owy ["...4,337 nonselected newborn children..." DISTRESS "...psychological mechanisms as mediating variables ... and the development of type 1 diabetes..."].
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPO-thesis" ~ The avoidable CAUSE of type 0 / 1B / 2 / 1.5 / 1A / 2A / 3 / 4 diabetes (relative-HYPOglycemia distress) appears substantially identical ... please read that HYPO-thesis link, very CAREfully, and communicate any genuine questions / positivising suggestions by email].
…Warm thanks & Adrenalin Love
Nick Gracey, BSc(Hons) Medical Biochemistry, Birmingham University, UK, WATerian (C) 23:32hrs @ SAT.19.JAN.2008 c/o DiabetesHealth.com
AdrenaLINE ... www.tinyurl.com/29kvda ... "I-Fast-23hours-45minutes-EveryDay-OrMore"
.
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Mr. Gracey,
If you think stressful parenting caused my Type 1 diabetes as a baby, do you propose that I sue/charge my parents with neglect and failing to provide me with a rich home?
Should I kill them for giving me this horrid problem?
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The FACT is that a lot of things contribute to Type 1 diabetes, but stress itself is not the actual TRIGGER, just a contributing factor.
The CAUSE of Type 1 diabetes is the leaky gut, which is made worse by stress.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17634262?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17589915?ordinalpos=10&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
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Stop the leaky gut, and you can cure autoimmunity in those who have the genes for autoimmunity.
Please explain what this
"Sort of [but true stress is always positive]. People mean what They say [what comes out of their mouth (or fingers)] and say what They mean [Freud called it a 'Freudian-slip']. Simply change the words You adopt. Babies and animals have zero capacity for that... Adult Humans DO. Change "distress" for "stress" in your words and change "distress" into "stress" in your deeds...
> www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip"
...has to do with autoimmunity??? I'm confused.
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There is a lot of information on the internet about the "brain-gut connection" especially in relation to autism and celiac disease. Here's one link http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtsensorygut.htm
That is why kids with autism are put on a gluten-free, casein free diet. In Celiac disease, they think that in addition to the ingestion of gluten, there has to be a second trigger, like distress, or a virus, which explains why some people with Celiac gene develop the disease and others don't. The brain-gut connection works both ways. When people are distressed, their digestion stops, which could be one cause of leaky gut. It also goes the other way. Indigestion affects the brain and neurotransmitters. If diabetes is a "nervous system" disease, (according to the Toronto Sick Kids research) then perhaps BOTH distress and foods are the triggers.
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Thanks Bird54. I am aware of the "brain in the gut" speculation, as well as the impact of foods on neurotransmitters via the leaky gut. But I think that it is very clear that one cannot "wish away" diabetes, as I presume Nick is suggesting. I DO agree that stress does impact the "leaky gut" (junctions between the gaps in intestinal cells). There are quite a number of contenders for what can set the stage for autoimmunity. No doubt that stress, living in poverty, etc. can cause a negative shift in immune regulation in someone prone to autoimmunity as well. But we still have no clear cause for certain, and stress itself does not seem to be the actual cause, it only fosters the problem if present.
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Nick—
The article you enclosed from Dr. Wilkins, and some previous articles, appear to fall in the category depicted by flat-earth proponents or evolution vs. creation discussions.
Take away the veil of science, statistics and a hint of genetics, and you are basically saying ALL diabetics are not victims, but shiftless, stupid, self-destructive patients. As a skinny-assed, white diabetic who has endured this disease for 51 years, I will state that in consideration of my skinny-assed forebears, your hypothesis is insulting.
As I interpret your conclusion:
• I eat too much
• I eat too often
• I eat the wrong foods
• I embrace an erroneous protocol of insulin usage
• I do not exercise enough
• I don’t care enough about my health
• I pay too little attention to details about my health
• I suffer from insulin resistance
As a scientific hypothesis, this would please any insurance carrier looking to lump all diabetic patients into a class of patients who have caused their own disease.
Remember, over 50% of all Americans are overweight, but before death, only about 30% of that 50%-population become diabetic. I know your hypothesis has that covered—the rest just didn’t live long enough for the disease to manifest.
You might want to check out a Nature article that found even people with Type 1 for 50 years or longer had active beta cells. Other studies have shown diabetics may be rejecting their own misformed insulin. There is a newly-released study indicating insulin may be produced (stored) in other organs of the body.
You are hypothesizing that inflammation, beta cell damage, receptor cell damage, and excess weight are causative for all forms of diabetes. Throw in a little genetic predisposition and “unknown” causes . . . and the witch’s brew is complete.
Have you ever considered the MANY causes of inflammation? Also, there are other causes of cell damage besides “inflammation.” I’m thinking about drugs, pesticides, toxic plastic residue, food additives, etc. All these could be more causative than ‘excess weight.’
You and your colleagues have no right to use weight as a causative pinnacle when excess weight may only be the result of a fast-food contaminated diet that leads to inflammation. An additional consideration might be that the water we drink and the air we breathe are also common denominators among the entire population.
While you are at it, you need to factor in other components that affect ‘good health’—anxiety, stress, guilt, aggression, depression—all emotional factors that affect a body’s hormonal responses. How do you weight these into what I perceive as your critically flawed hypothesis?
You (collectively) are obviously more learned, aware of current literature, and much younger than me. Being old, mean-spirited and cynical, I want you to know what I offer for comments is meant for discussion purposes only, and not as a personal swipe at anyone who suffers from any form of diabetes, autoimmune dise
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Well said, Brent! Nick's idea is a hypothesis clearly written by someone who either hates diabetics and sees them as weak(eugenics, perhaps?) or fails to grasp the concept of Type 1 diabetes (a physiological autoimmune disorder). From one skinny Type 1 to another (Type 1 diabetes ARE usually skinny as rails and eat healthy), thanks for your comments and wisdom.
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Brent said, "You might want to check out a Nature article that found even people with Type 1 for 50 years or longer had active beta cells."
If it is true that type 1's still have active beta cells, then why wouldn't the Gracey Hypothesis work? If a type 1 could rely on their excisting beta cells, by eating less often, wouldn't that be better than injecting foreign insulin?
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While I think we would ALL love to think that Nick is right and we can all be cured by one simple meal a day....
Because Type 1's have autoimmunity that is not *caused* by insulin resistance, even if a small amount of insulin resistance is present due to inflammation. We don't know what the actual trigger for Type 1 is. The process is going to continue.
If beta cells are given a chance to regenerate, they will be killed off by the same disease process that killed them in the first place. This seems to happen in some long standing Type 1's. They have constant beta cell regeneration, but the cells continue to be destroyed. Also remember that the pancreas is in fact "dead" in regards to islet clusters in long standing Type 1 diabetes. All that is left is scar tissue. This has been proven in the autopsies of diabetics. Beta cell regeneration does not come from existing beta cells, but rather with help from the spleen or other unknown mechanism (as per Faustman research).
The "Gracey Hypothesis" has NO scientific merit because it overlooks one simple fact that people who don't have Type 1a diabetes forget:
A Type 1 diabetic will die without insulin even if they FAST. A Type 1 diabetic CANNOT "rely on their existing beta cells by eating less often". Type 1 diabetics don't take insulin to eat, they take it to LIVE. I still need 12 units per day FASTING. This is because Type 1 diabetics produce NO insulin, or not enough to sustain life. Don't forget that insulin is needed even while fasting, just in smaller amounts. But even Type 1 diabetics do not have enough for that. Even for those who have some regeneration, the cells are killed off instantly again, and the cycle continues.
Think about this, really think. The "Gracey Hypothesis" has already been tried and is nothing new.
-Type 1 diabetics died a horrible quick death before insulin. Anywhere from days to months once diagnosed. For those who made it months before death, it was found that 7 year olds had the arteries of a 90 year old upon autopsy. It was a horrible way to go, as the body starved to death due to lack of insulin and was damaged by high blood sugars and ketones (acidic blood).
The common treatment, as nothing else was available, was FASTING and a strict diet of often 1 bowl of oatmeal a day. Note how ALL Type 1 diabetics STILL DIED shortly after diagnosis. Type 1 diabetes is a death sentence without insulin. Starvation diets only worked for those with what is now known as "Type 2" diabetes.
-Fasting and starvation diets don't work for Type 1. I'm not kidding when I've said I've gone days without food.
I was practically anorexic for 2 years because I felt to so sick from eating due to my food allergies. Note that I still kept good control of my BG. It does nothing except temporarily lower my mealtime insulin needs to zero, but my BASAL insulin needs remain close to the same or *slightly* lower. But I am never cured.
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I missed pointing out the beta cell regeneration to the point of a "cure" is not a proven concept in humans yet, only mice. I think this concept makes sense, but remember that we have cured mice of diabetes thousands of times, even by shaking them upside down.
It is not known how regeneration occurs (The spleen? Beta cells enlarging? Dividing?), or if it is even possible in all long standing Type 1 diabetics (it may not be).
Also, blood sugars must be NORMAL for beta cells to regenerate, as proven by Dr. Faustman, who suggested a temporary islet transplant to help with the problem.
In someone with diabetes, this will not happen.
This was the last I heard as per Faustman research. I'm sure Nick will post all of these irrelevant articles that he thinks says that this is not the case. I invite him to discuss his doubts with Dr. Faustman, MD and PhD. He can contact her at:
http://www.faustmanlab.org/
I'd be intersted in what SHE has to say about Gracey.
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(continued . . . sorry for the length)
You (collectively) are obviously more learned, aware of current literature, and much younger than me. Being old, mean-spirited and cynical, I want you to know what I offer for comments is meant for discussion purposes only, and not as a personal swipe at anyone who suffers from any form of diabetes, autoimmune disease or patients in general.
You all need to be aware that the goal of the insulin cartel is to place all Type 2’s on insulin as soon as possible. All rDNA insulins have a serious allergic component, and as you all have stated, insulin, in its many forms and misforms, may be an ancillary causative factor.
Please take the time to read Detoxify or Die by Sherry Rogers, M.D. There are some really good theories and discussions about inflammation, leaky gut, drug inflammation, etc
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What is so funny is that researchers are grasping at straws to explain Type 1 diabetes. We still have no clue as to the ACTUAL cause of the disease (although it is clear that the leaky gut is a likely point of entry for the trigger(s)).
Here is a study that completely contradicts Nick's previously posted article from Pub Med. In it, children from well to do families have a HIGHER rate of Type 1 diabetes, and those from "struggling" families a LOWER rate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=18201211
It's much the same in most medical research. One week tea causes cancer, the next week it's a potential cure...
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Posted by bird54 on 20 Jan 2008 at 1:25 AM
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2peco6 [LoveDiabetes.com]
"...There is a lot of information on the internet about the "brain-gut connection" especially in relation to autism and celiac ... Here's one link
http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtsensorygut.htm
... In Celiac ... they think that ... there has to be a ... trigger, like distress, ... which explains why some people with Celiac gene develop the disease and others don't. The brain-gut connection works both ways. When people are distressed, their digestion ... could be one cause of leaky gut. It also goes the other way. Indigestion affects the brain and neurotransmitters. If diabetes is a "nervous system" disease, (according to the Toronto Sick Kids research) then perhaps BOTH distress and foods are the triggers...".
Hi bird54 & AnyOne else,
Am grateful yet again, bird54, for the extraordinary speed with which You clearly perceive the vast importance of the subtle. STRESS, c/o only 2 letters, is completely different to DISTRESS. True stress & true love are always positive. People mean what They say [what comes out of their mouth (or fingers)] and say what They mean ['Freudian-slips']. Simply change the words adopted? Babies and animals have zero capacity for exchanging negativising words for positivising words... Adult Humans DO have that capacity but often CHOOSE to remain as programmed as Babies. Adults can take responsibility, be grateful for reaching Adulthood and choose positivising... EG "leaky gut" into "ANA".
> www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip
DIABETES ?
CAUSED by eating too OFTEN.
WHAT DISTRESS ?
Relative-HYPOglycemia.
WHY DO 'INSULIN RESISTANCE' &
HYPO-INSULINEMIA PREDICT TYPE 1A?
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/3dze9q [Polly.Bingley@bristol.ac.uk (IRT1DM) > following down-regulation of beta-cell-insulin secretion (HYPO-insulinemia) >> protection from relative-HYPOglycemia >>> '...insulin resistance ... progression to type 1A diabetes...'].
HOW CAN MORE 'INSULIN RESISTANCE' &
EATING LESS OFTEN HELP CURE TYPE 1A?
http://www.TheDiabetesBlog.com/2007/05/25/tv-causes-elevated-glucose-in-children
> 0506 www.tinyurl.com/2sm9g6 [DvWa@paed.azm.nl ~ 3d/stress/distress]
HOW CAN MORE 'GUT PERMEABILITY' [ANA] &
EATING LESS OFTEN HELP CURE TYPE 1A?
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/35thch [Enrique.Caviedes@Gmail.com ~ BAT]
> www.tinyurl.com/2bc7wj [Adaptive Nutritive Absorption (ANA)]
> 1003 www.tinyurl.com/3x64w6 [Johda@ibk.liu.se ~ H2O/stress/distress]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPO-thesis" ~ The avoidable CAUSE of type 0 / 1B / 2 / 1.5 / 1A / 2A / 3 / 4 diabetes (relative-HYPOglycemia aka DISTRESS)...
> 1296 www.tinyurl.com/39cqlc [Quan ~ The 'missing-link']
…Warm thanks & Adrenalin Love
Nick Gracey, BSc(Hons) Medical Biochemistry, Birmingham University, UK, WATerian (C) 19:17hrs SUN.20.JAN.2008 www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html
AdrenaLINE ... www.tinyurl.com/29kvda ... "I-Fast-23hours-45minutes-EveryDay-OrMore"
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Nick,
This article says that insulin resistance can only SPEED UP the course of autoimmunity ALREADY PRESENT. It did not cause the disease. So what did? The LEAKY GUT, the CAUSE of (Type 1) diabetes.
0108 www.tinyurl.com/3dze9q [Polly.Bingley@bristol.ac.uk (IRT1DM) > following down-regulation of beta-cell-insulin secretion (HYPO-insulinemia) >> protection from relative-HYPOglycemia >>> '...insulin resistance ... progression to type 1A diabetes...'].
The CAUSE of T1 diabetes is the leaky gut. The CURE for T1 diabetes is closing the leaky gut.
Where does Bird54 say this? I am confused.
"Am grateful yet again, bird54, for the extraordinary speed with which You clearly perceive the vast importance of the subtle. STRESS, c/o only 2 letters, is completely different to DISTRESS. True stress & true love are always positive. People mean what They say [what comes out of their mouth (or fingers)] and say what They mean ['Freudian-slips']. Simply change the words adopted? Babies and animals have zero capacity for exchanging negativising words for positivising words... Adult Humans DO have that capacity but often CHOOSE to remain as programmed as Babies. Adults can take responsibility, be grateful for reaching Adulthood and choose positivising... EG "leaky gut" into "ANA".
> www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip"
"DIABETES ?
CAUSED by eating too OFTEN."
No. I already said what causes diabetes.
"http://www.thediabetesblog.com/2007/05/25/tv-causes-elevated-glucose-in-children"
This says the obvious. Sitting around and eating increasing blood sugar. But NOT doing those things will NOT CURE Type 1 diabetes. Where did this article say that? I am confused by what you are saying. You must really think all diabetics are fat, lazy, and weak.
Let's just say that I could be a fitness model.
Enough with the unproven pseudoscience already!
The (probable) CAUSE for T1 diabetes is the LEAKY GUT (and genetics). The CURE for T1 diabetes is closing the leaky gut! Simple, really!!!!
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For those interested, probiotics show great promise in restoring the imbalance between the "good" and "bad" bacteria found in those with large junctions. The are only one piece of the puzzle, of course, but perhaps a large one. The Raw Food and Gluten free diets also seem to help in some patients.
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Posted by bird54 on Monday 21 Jan 2008
> DiabetesHealth.com ...
"...If distress causes the digestion ... so that ... nutrients ... getting to the cells, then the body would want to raise its blood sugar and become insulin resistant in order to nourish the brain and nerves. ... During distress, does the brain require more glucose?...".
Hi bird54 & AnyOne else,
YES ... during distress the brain/nerves usually "...require more glucose..." and the body adapts to this requirement by insulin-dependent tissues [EG liver/fat] becoming more glucose insulin resistant [GIR] in order for the available plasma blood glucose concentration to be more efficiently transported to the brain/nerves [rather than siphoned-off by peripheral insulin-dependent 'storage tissues']. Distress is an 'emergency' situation rather than a 'storage' situation. A prime objective during distress is to retain consciousness by preventing relative-HYPOglycemia.
Another body adaption during distress is "...enhanced gut paracellular permeability..." aka Adaptive Nutritive Absorption or "ANA".
> 0807 www.tinyurl.com/22d8ga [heutamen@toulouse.inra.fr ~ Neuro-Gastroenterology & Nutrition]
Adaptive nutritive absorption (ANA) helps prevent relative-HYPOglycemia. A distressful reduction in the availability of optimum "liquidarian nutrition" [LN], EG breast milk, can result in a compensatory "...increase in paracellular permeability..." to maximize metabolism of residual fuel in GI tract.
> 0108 www.tinyurl.com/2dv5jd [jfioramo@toulouse.inra.fr ~ Nerve Growth factor (NGF) is a possible mediator of this effect]
A lack of ANA efficiency is likely to increase relative-HYPOglycemia and so increase the possibility of diabetes arising. A fortunate Diabetic may develop ANA as part of the healing process as a means of helping prevent the instances of relative-HYPOglycemia. Evidence suggests that ANA can arise after type 1A diabetes.
> 1205 www.tinyurl.com/yqe4pd ["...developed Type 1 at age 2 ... diagnosed ... with Celiac ... age 23 ... grew normally as a child and never displayed ANY symptoms until adulthood..."]
Adaption of the body to prevent relative-HYPOglycemia and adaptive transitions between different types of diabetes is well established EG Halle Berry type 1 adaption to type 2.
> 1201 www.tinyurl.com/2d88jy [cbdm@joslin.harvard.edu ~ Dr Diane Mathis / type 2 adaption to type 1]
> 1207 www.tinyurl.com/399utj ["The Gracey HYPO-thesis" / Relative-HYPOglycemia DISTRESS ... the avoidable CAUSE of type 0 / 1B / 2 / 1.5 / 1A / 2A / 3 / 4 diabetes appears substantially identical ... Please study that HYPO-thesis link, very CAREfully, and communicate any genuine questions / positivising suggestions by email]
…Warm thanks & Adrenalin Love
Nick Gracey, BSc(Hons) Medical Biochemistry, Birmingham University, UK, WATerian (C) 10:00hrs MON.21.JAN.2008 c/o www.DiabetesHealth.com/read/2007/11/29/5564.html
AdrenaLINE ... www.tinyurl.com/29kvda ... "I-Fast-23hours-45minutes-EveryDay-OrMore"
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Hi Sarah and Brent,
I found this comment (below). Like this person, it has been my experience that diabetes began with Impaired glucose (phase 1 insulin response) and relative-HYPOglycemia which resulted in insulin resistance and diabetes. This supports the Gracey HYPO-thesis [www.tinyurl.com/399utj] that advocates encouraging insulin resistance. It appears, in Margo's case that ' relative-HYPOglycemia distress' was a major trigger but Margo lacks enough insulin resistance to prevent a "hypo attack"? This is the first time I've discussed 'phase 1 / 2 insulin response', has your MD mentioned yours?
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=152900
"I have impaired glucose intolerance with reactive
hypoglycemia. My fasting on any typical day will be normal and
then at 1 hour after breakfast I'll go to between 8-9 mmol/L
and start dropping steadily back by the two hour mark to the
4-5 range. If it is an unlucky day at around the three hour
mark I may/may not have a hypo attack. I am 58 years old and
have been this way with the hypo since age 20 and the impaired
kicked in at age 37. A virus with additional stress is what
precipated the start of the IGT